Curse

Gerbill · Jun 25, 2005, 01:21 AM // 01:21

I don't know how much Absorbtion actually absorbs.
and I'm not sure how much each Vigor actually adds.

but I was thinking.

your HP.. is bound to % with a lot of things.
deep wound 20%
sacrifical skills certain %
DP 15% - 60%

if you have more HP by the use of a Vigor rune.. more HP will go off due to the percentages.

but Absorbtion.. won't ever get less, there's not a skill that let's you absorb less.. that's just a static fact.
doesn't that make Absorbtion a lot better than Vigor ?

Dhampyr D · Jun 25, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07

erm no lol... vigor and absorb are both different types of rune... vigor adds +30 +40 +50 health and the absorb runes im not completely sure about the effectiveness but i do know that none of them have a health penalty so no worries about if effecting your overall health

Sagius Truthbarron · Jun 25, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

Yes, they do have a health penalty, becuase if you have 600 hp and a 50% DP you'll have 300 hp. If you have 480 then you have 220 health with a 50% dp. More health is better, appearently? But I might be wrong.

I think abosorbtion is the same thing that you find on Knight Armor, isn't it? I would guess that Absorbtion would be better against pyschical attackers and Vigor would be better against casters. Of course, both would do you alot of good together.

Then, there are attacks that do damage by the health % if I'm not mistaken? But I don't think less health would be better there.

Red Locust · Jun 25, 2005, 04:32 AM // 04:32

You always want more health. Becomes especially useful when you're being spiked (which is what most people strive for...the most damage in the least amount of time). That extra health can be the difference between death and a monk heal spell that saves your ass just in time.

Of course, there are some special cases, like protective bond or aura of lich builds, but generally the rule of thumb is: more hp > less hp.

Keure · Jun 25, 2005, 05:20 AM // 05:20

IIRC Absorption runes give +1, +2, +3 for minor, major, and superior (respectively) with no penalty.

I think of it this way: every time you get hit, you get healed by the amount of absorption you have.

Let's say you're wearing a major absorption rune (-2 damage), and get hit 15 times.

The rune gave you the equivalent of 2 x 15 = 30 HP (equal to a minor vigor).

I don't see why you care about "better" or "worse" here, though - get both a vigor rune and an absorption rune and you get the benefits of both.

Nexx · Jun 25, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

But what if you get hit with a large attack? Wouldn't it be better to have the vigor rune (assuming that you can only equip one)?

Say you get hit with a 50 damage attack:

-2 only from that attack brings the damage down to 48.
But with a major vigor, you really have an additional 40 health.

So wouldn't it be better to just have more health? To me, I'm more concerned about those single high damage spike attacks than those multiple low damage ones.

ADD: Furthermore, why does SUPERIOR ABSORPTION cost more than SUPERIOR VIGOR at the rune trader when vigor is much better for most situations.

Ishamael Sedai · Jun 25, 2005, 06:40 AM // 06:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Yes, they do have a health penalty, becuase if you have 600 hp and a 50% DP you'll have 300 hp. If you have 480 then you have 220 health with a 50% dp. More health is better, appearently? But I might be wrong.

I think abosorbtion is the same thing that you find on Knight Armor, isn't it? I would guess that Absorbtion would be better against pyschical attackers and Vigor would be better against casters. Of course, both would do you alot of good together.

Then, there are attacks that do damage by the health % if I'm not mistaken? But I don't think less health would be better there.

Vigor does not have a health penalty. Dying on the other hand does. Minor vigor adds 30 health. Major Vigor adds 40 health (although due to a bug?? some people have gotten 41 health). Superior Vigor adds 50 health.

Minor Vigor has -1 dmg reduction. Major Vigor has -2 dmg reduction. Superior Vigor has -3 dmg reduction.

You can use both together. Absorption stacks with knights armor although you only need 1 piece of knights armor to get the dmg reduction.

Ishamael Sedai · Jun 25, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexx

But what if you get hit with a large attack? Wouldn't it be better to have the vigor rune (assuming that you can only equip one)?

Say you get hit with a 50 damage attack:

-2 only from that attack brings the damage down to 48.
But with a major vigor, you really have an additional 40 health.

So wouldn't it be better to just have more health? To me, I'm more concerned about those single high damage spike attacks than those multiple low damage ones.

ADD: Furthermore, why does SUPERIOR ABSORPTION cost more than SUPERIOR VIGOR at the rune trader when vigor is much better for most situations.

If you are a warrior there should be NO reason other than finances where you could only equip one. You have 5 spots to place a rune. 1 will go for strength. 1 will go for tactics. 1 will go for vigor. 1 will go for absorption. 1 will go for your weapon of choice. If for some strange reason you want to use 2 weapons just buy an extra armor piece and swap it. Or perhaps take away the tactics, but don't take away vigor or absorption. If you are anything other than a warrior you can't equip superior absorption anyways.

I'm not sure why it costs more. You would think the demand for Vigor would be greater since everyone in the game can use vigor and only warriors can use absorption. The only answer I can think of is the drop rate might be higher for vigor than absorption in an attempt to counter the higher demand.

Nexx · Jun 25, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

I see. So the runes don't stack on top of each other? So you can't have multiple runes of vigor? Hmm.. in that case perhaps you can help me with another problem. In another post I wrote in regards to which armor was better, why does Knight armor have reduce damage from attack on all their pieces? Also, is the reduce damage localized for runes or does the reduce damage on armor behave differently from rune'd components.

IE:
Knight armor helmet has built-in reduce damage from attack.

Is the -2 or whatever bonus prevention local only to that location or is it global as is with a rune of absorption?

I'm getting the impression that rune of absorption provide global bonus where as built-in reduce damage on armor are localized.

EmperorTippy · Jun 25, 2005, 07:17 AM // 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexx

I see. So the runes don't stack on top of each other? So you can't have multiple runes of vigor? Hmm.. in that case perhaps you can help me with another problem. In another post I wrote in regards to which armor was better, why does Knight armor have reduce damage from attack on all their pieces? Also, is the reduce damage localized for runes or does the reduce damage on armor behave differently from rune'd components.

IE:
Knight armor helmet has built-in reduce damage from attack.

Is the -2 or whatever bonus prevention local only to that location or is it global as is with a rune of absorption?

I'm getting the impression that rune of absorption provide global bonus where as built-in reduce damage on armor are localized.

Both are global. And they stack.

Rajamic · Jun 25, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexx

I see. So the runes don't stack on top of each other? So you can't have multiple runes of vigor?

Nope. Good thing too. Imagine a geomancer with 5 Superior Earth runes doing an Earthquake + Aftershock combo. It would do over 400 damage (as an area effect spell) at 60 AL!

StandardAI · Jun 25, 2005, 07:45 AM // 07:45

A minor absorption rune subtracts 1 damage, Major 2, Superior 3. Things to consider about the knights armor, and drake armor. While the knight armor may reduce damage against your average low attack. With the drake armor the +5 armor gives you an 8% damage reduction difference from the knights armor, so if you want more defence for your self against non armor ignoring attacks that deal 100 damage and such, drake armor may be the choice to consider.

Ollj · Jun 25, 2005, 09:54 AM // 09:54

keure pretty much cleared it up for me

Sagius Truthbarron · Jun 25, 2005, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishamael Sedai

Vigor does not have a health penalty. Dying on the other hand does. Minor vigor adds 30 health. Major Vigor adds 40 health (although due to a bug?? some people have gotten 41 health). Superior Vigor adds 50 health.

Minor Vigor has -1 dmg reduction. Major Vigor has -2 dmg reduction. Superior Vigor has -3 dmg reduction.

You can use both together. Absorption stacks with knights armor although you only need 1 piece of knights armor to get the dmg reduction.

What was meant by that was the appearent fact that your overall health is detered no matter what, even if a portion of it is just a bonus from a rune. You get the over all penalty depending on what ammount of health you have.

Is this not correct?

Luggage · Jun 25, 2005, 12:00 PM // 12:00

vigor and weapon health mods are applied after dp is calculated

Dhampyr D · Jun 25, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

well ive unlocked superior absorb and i dont get any health penalty at all for havin it

Deathlord · Jun 25, 2005, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Absorption and vigor runes are exempt from the -hp effects. The runes themselves don't stack and the strongest ones are the ones that are in effect. I'm not exactly sure why you would compare the two since you can use both, and absorption is a warrior rune, but I guess i'll just play along anyway.

Absorption = -X damage from any attack (Might be situations such as illusionary weaponry that bypass that, also monster skills like giant stomp).
Vigor = +HP (Not much else to it)

If you could only use one, then i'd probably have to go with a superior vigor. Absorption is nice because there's no drawback, but -3 from every attack sometimes won't match up to an extra 50 hp (Or is it 51? Major vigor is 41 so i dunno if sup is too).

However, if you really wanted a nice warrior armor set all you need is.

Superior Vigor
Superior Absorption
A knight piece (Works best with either boots/gloves)
Shield with -dmg and +hp while in blah blah.

Ideally you can have up to -7 dmg from everything and a total of like +95 health from shield+rune (Shield = 45, rune = 50). Basically, they're both good, just depends on you're taste.

PippinTook · Jun 25, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Use them both. If you can only use one go with vigor though.

kuramaroze · Jun 26, 2005, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

Yes, they do have a health penalty, becuase if you have 600 hp and a 50% DP you'll have 300 hp. If you have 480 then you have 220 health with a 50% dp. More health is better, appearently? But I might be wrong.

I think abosorbtion is the same thing that you find on Knight Armor, isn't it? I would guess that Absorbtion would be better against pyschical attackers and Vigor would be better against casters. Of course, both would do you alot of good together.

Then, there are attacks that do damage by the health % if I'm not mistaken? But I don't think less health would be better there.

Check your math, its pretty bad, dude. 480\2=240... And he wasn't even talking about dp either. He was saying that absortion runes don't have the -50/75 health that other major/sup runes have. Anyways, when people ask me if vigors or +30 health upgrades are better than absortions or +armor upgrades, I tell them "no". Think about it, the +health only really comes into play when you aren't being healed, while the absortion and damage reduction come into play the entire time helping out your monks mana pool. If you're a squishie, a vigor helps a lot though. +armor should always be taken over +health though.

PippinTook · Jun 26, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuramaroze

Check your math, its pretty bad, dude. 480\2=240... And he wasn't even talking about dp either. He was saying that absortion runes don't have the -50/75 health that other major/sup runes have. Anyways, when people ask me if vigors or +30 health upgrades are better than absortions or +armor upgrades, I tell them "no". Think about it, the +health only really comes into play when you aren't being healed, while the absortion and damage reduction come into play the entire time helping out your monks mana pool. If you're a squishie, a vigor helps a lot though. +armor should always be taken over +health though.

Good Point. Your right armor can be better than health, but I dont know how much more armor absortion gives you. So I still think you should use both.